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 Is Alcoholism a disease?

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Disease
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no
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~Zeta~
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PostSubject: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 25th 2010, 8:01 pm

disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms

addiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful


Straight from Merriam Webster.

Discuss.

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Last edited by ~Z~ on August 26th 2010, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 11:27 am

Hmm, my mistake. I meant alcohol is a drug. I'm a bad debater but I can tell you that is correct. Drivers permit test and drivers ed will tell you the same.

But if you think about it, alcoholism is handed down from your parents. If you have alcoholic parents, you have a higher chance of becoming an alcoholic yourself. Same is said for diseases such as diabetes and cancer. That's probably why I thought it to be a disease.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 3:36 pm

Alcoholism has yet to be proven to be passed by genetics. True, they have signs and indications, but it's not a fact. They don't even know if those signs and indications (by genetics) are that much of a factor to alcoholism. (Source) In that source, it says that most cases of alcoholism is cause by the environments of where the person grew up.

From what I see, people (not directed at anybody) miss the fine line between a disease and an addiction. Hence the definitions that I have given.
Diseases are caused by outside sources that are not caused by the person themselves. Now, heart disease is an example that's touchy to my comment. That really isn't a disease. Much more like an effect. But, it is most likely a disease because it has been proven to be genetic (extremely healthy people have been found to have heart disease, I have a family member like this).

Again, this is a touchy topic. There's a mix of science, logic, and belief in this.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 3:45 pm

Alcoholism (in a sense) was genetically passed down from my mother's parents to her. But I see what you mean by the surroundings idea, because she grew up around both her parents drinking constantly. My mother is an alcoholic, and the way I think about it, if her parents were not alcoholics, then she wouldn't be as susceptible to drinking herself into oblivion.

It is a touchy subject and it really depends from person to person. Maybe if my mother's parents weren't alcoholics then my mom wouldn't drink as much. Maybe she would drink just the same. I guess I won't ever know the answer to that.

I guess I can agree that it's not a disease such as diabetes. But I do slightly believe it can be genetic to a certain point.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 5:15 pm

~Z~ wrote:
disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms

addiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful
That definition of addiction says the condition is characterized, but not defined, by physiological symptoms. By Webster's definition of disease, anything physiologically manifested that impairs normal functioning is a disease, so addictions that trigger a physical response during withdrawal most certainly count.

Neurological "impairment" is physiological. Addictions range a lot further than alcoholism and dread drugs, especially in our era of mass-produced convenience: Withdrawal symptoms have been observed and documented in video game-addicted children out in summer camps, for example. One could of course argue that these symptoms are more of an epiphenomenon: that they are anxious responses... but I think it's intuitively obvious that the truth is a mix of these two phenomena: video games require such concentration that they can be used as an outlet away from reality, the brains of these people adjust to suit said outlet, and it takes some time for them to neurologically adapt to their environment. Don't addictions to substances operate almost identically?

My mom also believes alcoholism is somehow passed on genetically, and I strongly disagree... Again, it makes all too much intuitive sense that genetics could affect an individual's decision-making ability, and that might lead them into making the wrong decisions (i.e. drinking to escape reality) but couldn't, with such small changes between generations of people, predispose them to a specific substance.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 6:27 pm

I don't believe that alcoholism is genetic on the grounds of if your parent(s) was/were alcoholics then you will automatically be one. I believe it's genetic on the point of if they were alcoholics, then you have a higher chance of becoming one yourself because your body may already be used to the higher levels of alcohol in your bloodstream. I say this because if the alcohol tolerance was high for the parents then it's going to be harder for alcohol to affect the child's brain (I don't necessarily mean child as in under 17, just to clarify that), thus the person would need more to become impaired or to escape reality.

I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I just start talking randomly and it doesn't slew together correctly >.>
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 9:04 pm

I'm very sure impressionability has a strong effect on alcohol abuse, drug abuse, et cetera.

I'm not sure if tolerance of a drug can be improved by constantly taking that drug in small amounts and therefore being able to resist side effects of it. The main thing about alcoholism and drug abuse is that it's usually influenced by the surrounding environment. Take peer pressure scenarioes for example; your college friends want you to drink, and then you drink excessively just to look "cool".

This is what I mean by impressionability. Parents are the single biggest influence on their children, and a lot of parents use "because I said so" excuses if their children ever question them. This is a HUGE fucking problem! This leads the guy into falling into peer pressure because his friends are saying that it's "cool because it is".

http://betheinfluence.org/whos_the_influence_parents.aspx

And here's something my school hasn't told me: Alcohol beverages like beer have great benefits when used in moderation! In fact, it can even help slow aging! It can also help reduce cholesterol.

http://www.fitnesstipsforlife.com/health-benefits-of-beer.html

This is a big problem that schools are not solving: They're trying to teach abstinence. FUCK abstinence. What if the kid goes to a bar, drinks too much, then gets into a car crash huh? So much for abstinence.... the reality is that they WILL drink, despite what's told to them. But then again, it's also the parents' responsibility to teach their children how to handle alcohol responsibly. 21 is not a magic age where you suddenly "know" how to handle alcohol.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 10:27 pm

alcoholism is an addiction. not a disease. it is a disease in a sense that when drunk you are impaired, but it isnt a sickness.

and no its not genetic at all. omg my dad drinks a lot that means i will to. wrong. its just that the kid sees it as normal or not a big deal there for does is themselves. its not in DNA or any other genetic material. people just like to make up theories for peoples problems. im so sick of this stupid argument i hear it all the time
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 10:31 pm

kmay wrote:
and no its not genetic at all. omg my dad drinks a lot that means i will to. wrong. its just that the kid sees it as normal or not a big deal there for does is themselves. its not in DNA or any other genetic material. people just like to make up theories for peoples problems. im so sick of this stupid argument i hear it all the time


Did I say this? No. I said you are more likely to. Does not mean you indefinitely will.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 10:33 pm

I'm just saying. that the whole genetic thing is wrong. I know what you said i read it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 26th 2010, 11:50 pm

@Dossar I agree that children of parents that, one way or another, teach their children to be cynical, will be less impressionable. Refreshingly insightful. >3>

Disagree with the whole bit on beer being healthy, though. Of course it'll be subject to a large amount of confirmation bias for its "hidden positive effects", but in reality it'll always remain a liquid of highly processed starch with toxic properties.

<3 water

@kmay I think you completely missed the point. I said addiction that affects you physiologically is disease. (Ultimately almost any degree of compulsion strong enough to be termed "addiction" qualifies...)
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 12:54 am

kmay wrote:
alcoholism is an addiction. not a disease. it is a disease in a sense that when drunk you are impaired, but it isnt a sickness.

and no its not genetic at all. omg my dad drinks a lot that means i will to. wrong. its just that the kid sees it as normal or not a big deal there for does is themselves. its not in DNA or any other genetic material. people just like to make up theories for peoples problems. im so sick of this stupid argument i hear it all the time

You sir are very rude. This is a critcal thinking thread to where people have their own opinions and statements without being houded about something someone else thinks is wrong. Just calm down and state your opinion without being disrespectful.

Now, is it genetic? For many many years doctors, scientists, and others have researched this theory to see if it is correct. They have proven, over the last 25 years, that out of all of their patients, 75% of them have proved the theory of Alcoholism being allowed to be genetically passed down. So far, it really depends on the severity of how much someone's parents have drank over the 9 months they were in the womb. As of right now they have NOT come to a conclusion about that particular subject, but they just about concluded it can be genetic.

As for Alcoholism NOT being a disease, lets take a look at the definition of what a disease is:

1 : obsolete : trouble
2 : a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
3 : a harmful development (as in a social institution)

I have bolded the definition I am talking about. "A condition of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms." How do you say Alcoholism doesn't fall under this category? If you go to merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disease there is a column that shows examples: a disease of the mind. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, BY FAR.

Now, to furthermore support the fact that Alcoholism is a disease, let me bring up the topic of my father. A couple months ago I had to go down to where he lived to fill out paper work for his advisor considering I am Power of Attorney over him, and he is currently on Disability. Now, as I filled out the paperwork it very clearly described his condition. He was sent to 5, count it, one, two, three, four, FIVE, different doctors to verify the condition. The condition states : The patient named, ???, is currently accepted for disablity under the states declaration of patient named, ??? is suffering from listed diseases including: Mental Illness, Mental Affiliated Illness, Heart Conditions ranging from and not limiting Heart Palpatations and murmurs, Alcoholism. Now his agent who Sara met last year, flat out explained to me what the diseases were. She was gracious enough to fill me in on the subject that Alcoholism is IN FACT a disease of the mind. It is an addiction that he built up to drown his sorrows and worries away. From that addiction, he suffered liver problems and now has white spots all over his liver. I found this out a couple months ago as well.

I agree with Kellen that it is, definitely an addiction, but just like any drug; Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroine, PCP, LSD, etc. etc., they all have the same outcome if used in excess or over a period of time, which is, regretably, death.

So, just to clarify, it IS a disease.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 5:19 am

In theory then, are you also saying that smoking is a disease? because in theory it's very similar to alcoholism.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 7:45 am

thank you bob bob and Frankie I'm rude to people that are rude.

you cant just say anything is a disease because it 'impairs normal functioning' if i break my arm. thats not a disease. if i shoot up heroin that not a disease. if i get shwasted off my ass thats not a disease.

and frankie the way that are describing ALCOHOLISM there is just the deterioration of the liver to the point where it is not functioning the way it should be. its not that drinking is a disease its that the effects of it can lead to them. like bob bob said would you consider smoking cigarettes a disease?
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 11:45 am

Kellen, let me ask you a question. So, in essence what you're saying is that such diseases as, cancer, lukemia (again, sp?), flu virus, etc. etc. are all a form of disease why? What makes them diseases and not alcoholism? Cancer physically and mentally disables you at some degree.

Here lets take a look:

Stage 1 cancer does not truthfully affect someone except mentally. You show signs of fatigue and weariness, etc. etc. but nothing truthfully explicit.

Stage 2 cancer is when it starts to affect your body more and more, you start to show the paleness in your face, increased fatigue, sickness, throwing up, etc. etc.

Stage 3 cancer (which is what most people die from) is the fatal condition.

Let's look at Alcoholism:

First part = OH ITS SO FUN YAYYYYY WOOO (just like stage 1 cancer, really nothing happening)

Second part = you get a buzz, it starts to take an effect on your body over years of doing it (just like cancer)

Third part = you can die. It can affect your liver, stomach, kidneys, etc.

Cancer affects everything in your body. Alcoholism effects a lot as well. Both end in death if not treated correctly. How the hell is that a difference??

I mean I know I'm comparing it to something completely different in life, but seriously, look at the facts there. How?


And is smoking a disease? Yes. Just like alcohol they both can involve serious effects down the road.

Now there is something you guys are missing. Alcoholism is a disease of the MIND. Your body is craving it for the amount of years you have taken it. Your body will react to withdrawal if not supplemented correctly. Same with ANY other drug. (Trust me, I know.) Your body gets so used to the amount of "stuff" you put into it that your mind starts to get a standard after a while. Lets look at a scenario:

A man has been drinking for 45 years. Everyday he wakes up he drinks a can of beer to start his morning. He goes to work, right before he steps in the office, he has another beer. During work, he does not drink. He comes home after work, and starts to finish off the 30 pack he bought yesterday.

Now, look at that scenario, and tell me whats wrong.

1.) The man has alcoholism, obviously.
2.) He's not even thinking correctly about what time of day it is and that he shouldn't drink before work. I don't care if it is 2 beers or 10 beers. It's not right.
3.) He does the same routine (lets say) everyday for the last 30 of the 45 years. His mind is telling him to do that because that is what it is USED to.

So, the same can be said about drugs: Marijuana, Cocaine, etc. etc. How the hell are they NOT diseases!? Seriously, no matter what anyone says, smoking/drinking is a force of habit that YOU, a PERSON, implanted on yourself. After a while, you start to build a constant everyday habit of it therefore changing your mind to do what YOU feel is correct. When, it may not always be correct.

Again, they are both (Alcoholism and Smoking) a DISEASE of the MIND. Therefore, they are both diseases. No controversy. I am a smoker of 6 years from 18, and other years from stealing my dad's smokes to have one Smile so trust me I think I am liable to say. Plus, with Sara's mother and my father constantly drinking, and from what I said about the state of New Jersey diagnosing my father with Alcoholism as a DISEASE, I think I can say I know.

Also, Kellen, why can't you say this?

kmay wrote:
thank you bob bob and Frankie I'm rude to people that are rude.

you cant just say anything is a disease because it 'impairs normal functioning' if i break my arm. thats not a disease. if i shoot up heroin that not a disease. if i get shwasted off my ass thats not a disease.

That is what the DEFINITION of what a DISEASE is.

Also, look at the number 3 definition in my last post. A HARMFUL DEVELOPMENT. nuff said man, nuff said.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 12:29 pm

No, it's not a disease
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 1:34 pm

@ kmay, Bob bob, Scintill
A broken arm is an injury. Whether to call that a disease or not would be a (relatively interesting) issue of semantics. No, shooting heroine, smoking or SHWASTING, themselves, are not diseases - what gave you that idea? Addiction to these things is. Most diseases are not inherited.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 1:43 pm

Actually, a lot of diseases are inherited. Diabetes, heart disease(s), cancer(s), etc. Those diseases don't usually come out of the blue unless the person to whom has acquired said disease has done something in their life to enhance their chance of getting it. But, if a normal, healthy person were to get type 1 diabetes, it's more likely to be because something in their genetics caused the pancreas to stop producing insulin. (Had a type 1 diabetic friend for 8+ years and my pop-pop has type 2.)
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:18 pm

How can you compare cancer and alcoholism? Cancer is an uncontrollable disease where as alcoholism is a CHOICE. Now yes people with alcoholic parents may be at a greater risk to become one because of what they grew up around but it is not spread though the genes of a person.


IMO people that want to call it a disease just can't own up to the fact that they fucked up their lives. Omg if I call it a disease it doesn't sound so bad it makes it sound like there's just something wrong with my body. Well yea NOW there's something wrong with it because YOU fucked it up. Not some uncontrolable disease such as cancer.

Go ahead and try to say its a mental disease but it's not. Someone could have had a PRIOR mental disease before the alcoholism that they may blame the alcoholism on but they could have gotten proper treatment and not turned to alcohol.


Anyways I've only skimmed through the posts in this forum so I didn't read closely this is just my two cents on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:21 pm

Punching myself in the face is a disease.

edit : I could copy + paste saphira's post.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:24 pm

Oh yea and on smoking being a disease it's not it can LEAD to diseases but again it's a personal choice. It's called ADDICTIONS people not diseases.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:29 pm

definition:
disease: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms

Don't misread this definition and consider the lack of proper decisions under the influence of alcohol a "disease". Diseases are genetic, or unintentionally received.

My parents are alcoholics - my dad just slurs his shit and stumbles when he's extremely drunk, and my mom goes through her mental relapses. Don't fucking sit here and tell me that their stupid actions are through a disease. The situation: either you drink because you're have nothing to better to do, or you drink because you are hiding other depressions or problems - YOU TURNED TO IT as a fix for depression. What, are we going to call cutting ourselves on the wrist a disease too, since people use the physical pain as a substitute for mental pain?

Give me a fucking break.

(yes, this is an extremely touchy subject to me and I simply can't comprehend why people come up with excuse after excuse about the same bullshit.)

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:48 pm

I read through a little more this time around so here goes

1st Alcoholism being genetic - it's not genetic something that is genetic is passed through the genes alcoholism is not it's children learning from what they are exposed to. Or them developing depression which may make them feel alcoholism is the solution.

2nd Alcoholism being a disease - Alcoholism can LEAD to diseases yes and yes it temporarily impares your normal function but no matter what it is a personal choice. Someone who is an alcoholic can have a mental disease but that doesn't make the alcoholism a disease it's just the path they chose to deal with it. Diseases like cancer, diabetes, etc. are things that are not personal choices some are passed down genetically some there's no explanation for it just happens and yes with some diseases they can come with personal choices like smoking. But when someone gets that disease from something they did it doesn't make the action they did the disease again it's all personal choice.


I know this is touchy for some of you because you have alcoholic parents and maybe it's easier to feel better about it if you call it a disease and I'm sorry but no matter what it comes down to the fact that they made poor choices. Alcoholism, drugs, smoking they are all addictions which could have been prevented in the 1st place. No one makes the choice but you to put that bottle to your lips.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 2:57 pm

I don't mean this to be rude, but you guys shouldn't be attacking anyone the way you did. None of us are alcoholics (from what I know) and this forum wasn't made to point at people and get angry. I know it's a touchy subject for a lot of people with alcoholic parents, but that doesn't give you the right to get angry at specific people for their opinions. That's what this is all about. Opinion. Everyone has a different idea and that's why this thread was created, to put our ideas out there.

Please don't take that as being rude or trying to bitch, I just felt it wasn't right to get as angry as you did when you said yourselves that this was made for opinions and to discuss.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:05 pm

Who's attacking? I see you quote kellen for posting his opinion and seeming a bit rude towards him. Then he quotes you back then he says
kmay wrote:
I'm just saying. that the whole genetic thing is wrong. I know what you said i read it.
Which isn't attacking.. Then Frankie targets him and tells him he's rude for expressing his opinion. Which yes in his opinion he has a lot of emotion because it's something that gets to him because he feels like everyone thinks he's going to be an alcoholic because of his parents but it's not rude or attacking anyone.

All I see is debating which is what is normal for a critical thinking thread I don't see anyone attacking anyone just expressing their viewpoints and bringing up questions on other peoples veiwpoints.


And just to point something else out I can name quite a few people off here with alcoholic parents and none of them are alcoholics so that just goes to support that it is not genetic.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:07 pm

Okay, so what would an addiction to alcoholism be?

what you guys are NOT understanding is the simplistic factor that your parents, AJ, have built a big portion on their lives with drinking. As my father and Sara's mother. They have drank for so long that now the addiction to alcoholism is bad. The alcohol takes away their pain and worries by drinking, therefore, the MENTAL DISEASE KNOWN AS ALCOHOLISM is what its called. I hate to say it dude. But seriously, it is. Its a disease of the mind that is asking for this stuff.

Take a look at wiki to prove alcoholism is a disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

Another:

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/about/f/faq2.htm

Another:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcoholism/DS00340

Another/with quote:

http://www.about-alcoholism-facts.com/Is_Alcoholism_A_Disease.html

Quote :
Once, however, a person starts to abuse alcohol and eventually becomes dependent on alcohol, that person is caught in the grips of a disease that is uncontrollable, debilitating, and potentially fatal without the appropriate treatment.

That's just for now.


EDIT: This topic isn't only sensitive to him. It's sensitive to alot of people, myself included. But I am very respectfully saying my side of the story with evidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:10 pm

One more proven factor that it's a disease from the National Institutes of Health

http://www.learn-about-alcoholism.com/is-alcoholism-a-disease.html
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:12 pm

All I clicked was the wiki one

"Disease theory of alcoholism"

THEORY Surprised

People are just trying to find an excuse. Alcoholism itself is not a disease if someone turns to it because of an underlying disease it doesn't make it one. People that have mental diseases are more susceptible to becoming alcoholics because it helps them deal with their disease.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:14 pm

lol, this thread should be in a garbage bin, went from a little thread an honest opinions to a bitchfest trying to defend who's right .


P.S. Its an addiction, you make the choice to drink in the first place. Case closed.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:14 pm

No matter how you look at it, it's going to be the sum answer of Yes.

What you guys are NOT getting AGAIN, is it is a disease of the MIND. Cutting yourself AJ is a disease, mental disease. Do you guys not know about mental institutions? Rehab facilities?? ALL OF THEM are for patients with some type of medical disease. Come on.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:14 pm

Frankie wrote:
One more proven factor that it's a disease from the National Institutes of Health

http://www.learn-about-alcoholism.com/is-alcoholism-a-disease.html


Someone wrote an article calling it a "disease" when these "symptoms" are ADDICTION.

# Craving: a strong urge, or need, to drink

# Loss of Control: unable to stop drinking once you start.

# Physical Dependence: withdrawal symptoms, such as sweating, shakiness, anxiety and nausea after stopping drinking

# Tolerance: needing to drink more alcohol to get the same “high”

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:15 pm

SOMEONE? hahaha kayla its the fucking NIoH! haha come on!!
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:16 pm

Quote :
In fact, says the National Institutes of Health (NIH), there are four symptoms of the disease:

* Craving: a strong urge, or need, to drink

* Loss of Control: unable to stop drinking once you start.

* Physical Dependence: withdrawal symptoms, such as sweating, shakiness, anxiety and nausea after stopping drinking

* Tolerance: needing to drink more alcohol to get the same “high”

Like many other diseases, alcoholism follows a predictable path and worsens over time.

One of the cruelest aspects of the disease is that it takes over so completely that the victim feels he or she can’t function normally without alcohol.

If the alcoholic fails to seek help, the disease can be fatal.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:17 pm

NOT TO MENTION, if it is NOT a disease then why is my father currently disabled for "The disease = Alcoholism" lol
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:17 pm

Show me the problem in the brain that makes people put a bottle to their lips and makes them drink and I'll call it a disease. And it has to be something other than depression or other already known mental illnesses


All the symptoms described in that article are addiction related not medical whatsoever.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:18 pm

Just because a parent has diabetes, does that mean that the child will automatically have diabetes too? No.

Also, I wasn't the only one attacking in this thread, neither was Frankie. I will apologize for attacking Kellen, I didn't necessarily mean to, but if it came across rudely, I apologize. AJ seemed very cross in his words and it seemed very much like attacking, that's why I said it (please don't take this as attacking, I'm merely pointing out what I saw). I know he has alcoholic parents and that it bothers him when this subject comes up. The same goes for many others in this community, including myself.

The reason why I say that alcoholism could be genetic is because I have seen through 3 generations in my family of alcoholics on my mother's side. Unfortunately for my mother, she has been the only one not to get out of it. Also, I may not have worded it this way before, but I believe that alcoholics to whom have children, those children already have that little thirst for alcohol while in the womb if the mother drinks (this is all assumptions, I know). When an alcoholic drinks, something in their brain triggers that they want more, same goes for smokers. It's a disorder. After really thinking about it, I believe it's a disorder, not necessarily a disease. The brain controls everything. No one really knows how the human brain works in its mysterious ways. But hopefully science will find a way to cure disorders or addictions or diseases that are caused by the brain.

I may get scoffed for the "diseases that are caused by the brain" thing, but there is a disease that really is caused by the brain. I had a friend in high school who had chronic pain in many places all over her body. She went to countless doctors and they said "there is nothing wrong" yet she was still having pain. Finally, a doctor diagnosed it very recently as being fibromyalgia. This happens when the brain sends false triggers to the nerves in your body that cause pain.

To sum up, IT'S THE BRAIN'S FAULT. I guess that's what I'm ultimately getting at.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:19 pm

Want a proven situation?

Okay, someone's wife/husband died. They can't deal with it. For YEARS they come home to an empty house with no wife/husband. They drink every day and night to drown the sorrows in hopes they can live on. MY FUCKING FATHER IS LIVING FUCKING PROOF!!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:21 pm

Oh I will agree to one thing Kayla and AJ have said. It is the person's choice to put the bottle to their lips. After that, the brain just craves more and more.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:22 pm

Evidence? Everyone is giving evidence to their opinion. It's their reasons for going against it. I don't care what all of the health organizations say. Self-inflicted harm by choice should not constitute as a relief for them. I personally disagree with all the facts that it is a disease. The research has yet to be concluded. That's one major reason why I'm not convinced. They're assuming facts and concluding things without completing the research.

What puts me more on the side that it's an addiction is what people have already said. Drinking all of the alcohol leads to those problems and dependence much like drugs. Why people label it as a disease still confuses me.

Genetic theory: They have not found a single gene that relates to alcoholism, so all they have are studies with a major factor of environment and how people live in it. No two people are exactly the same, so every situation is different (which is another question I have, but I'll post that later).





Interesting posts.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:22 pm

Frankie wrote:
NOT TO MENTION, if it is NOT a disease then why is my father currently disabled for "The disease = Alcoholism" lol


Your father has other mental illnesses you even stated that yourself. Are there pills for alcoholism? or is it other things like for depression or other mental diseases? Maybe ids should show people with mental diseases so they can't go buy alcohol. Because yes a mental disease can surely trigger it I don't deny that but it being a disease itself no I'm sorry really think about it stop going off stupid website bullshit that anyone can write and post. You're going to tell me there's a specific trigger in the brain for someone that's never had a drink that makes them go do it? No there's not there's depression which can lead to drinking and probably other mental illnesses but nothing proving that your brain is forcing you to drink.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:25 pm

Frankie wrote:
Want a proven situation?

Okay, someone's wife/husband died. They can't deal with it. For YEARS they come home to an empty house with no wife/husband. They drink every day and night to drown the sorrows in hopes they can live on. MY FUCKING FATHER IS LIVING FUCKING PROOF!!!!!


That's not prove all that proved is that he turned to alcohol during a time of depression and became addicted. Think about it.


ichliebekase wrote:
Oh I will agree to one thing Kayla and AJ have said. It is the person's choice to put the bottle to their lips. After that, the brain just craves more and more.


Yes craves more and more addiction. just like smoking

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:26 pm




This is the problem :]


Oh yea, it craves the addiction, I know. The brain causes a lot more than we all think. After truly thinking about it, it isn't a disease of the body, it gives the body diseases. Also, it is the person's choice to resort to drinking to get rid of pain and misery. Finally, (and I don't mean to sound childish) but it truthfully is all a matter of the brain doing a lot more than we could ever imagine.


Last edited by ichliebekase on August 27th 2010, 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:28 pm

Listen, honestly, i don't understand why it's so hard to see it as a disease. Really i don't. I can go to the websites, as you said, and blah blah and you can sit there and tell me your side without websites, i personally don't care. TO ME, it is a disease. If you drink alcohol in excess of what you should be, if at all, it's a disease. A disease of the mind that is called Alcoholism. It is my opinion, and until doctors and scientists tell me it's not? Then I'm not convinced it's not. Just like Mikey said but reversed.

If the NIoH and others can say it is, I'm convinced it IS a disease. i don't care who is typing that. I'll call them up, the NIoH and ask them personally if you would so desire. If they say it is, case closed in my book.

yes there is constant theories about it, yes it is speculation, but no matter what, everyone has their own opinions. I'm not running from it I don't have the disease. I don't drink really at all. SO if I'm not trying to run from something why would I call it a Disease? That is direct towards AJ.

Also, as sara said, not everyone is going to get a disease that their mother or father had. My mothers mother had diabetes, my mother did not. My fathers mother had glaucoma(?) my father does not. Not every disease is GOING to be DEFINITE in someone's life by their parents.

Bottom line, is yes it is opinionated. End of story.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:41 pm

You want me to look at it as a disease then show me someone medically proven that became an alcoholic without and underlying problem (death in the family, depression, other mental diseases, etc.) Or just someone becoming addicted because they like how it feels that they consume so much the body craves it. Then I will agree until you can prove that it's not a disease it's an addiction.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:42 pm

First off:

ichliebekase wrote:
I don't mean this to be rude, but you guys shouldn't be attacking anyone the way you did. None of us are alcoholics (from what I know) and this forum wasn't made to point at people and get angry. I know it's a touchy subject for a lot of people with alcoholic parents, but that doesn't give you the right to get angry at specific people for their opinions. That's what this is all about. Opinion. Everyone has a different idea and that's why this thread was created, to put our ideas out there.

Please don't take that as being rude or trying to bitch, I just felt it wasn't right to get as angry as you did when you said yourselves that this was made for opinions and to discuss.

No one is attacking anyone, and I'm sure if you had a subject that you were just as touchy on, you wouldn't want to hear the same excuses that sound (to you) completely stupid, over and over again. I'm not saying the points you guys have and/or are bringing up are bad, I'm just seriously fed up with the fact that people until now continue to consider this as a disease.

If you feel like my post was an attack, I apologize, but I'm not retracting it. It's the honest truth. I'm not going to sit here and listen to people try and defend points about how 'my parents had this' or 'they dealt with that'. There's no scientific evidence to prove anything, and with good reason; alcoholism is induced through previous actions. It's a

Frankie wrote:
Okay, so what would an addiction to alcoholism be?

what you guys are NOT understanding is the simplistic factor that your parents, AJ, have built a big portion on their lives with drinking. As my father and Sara's mother. They have drank for so long that now the addiction to alcoholism is bad. The alcohol takes away their pain and worries by drinking, therefore, the MENTAL DISEASE KNOWN AS ALCOHOLISM is what its called. I hate to say it dude. But seriously, it is. Its a disease of the mind that is asking for this stuff.

At your bolded point: Don't sit here and attempt to conclude an argument by saying "but it is". ESPECIALLY when I have a hell of a rebuttal coming.

How can you assume -anything- about my parents? The fact that you have to use your parents to validate your point without concrete facts means nothing. How do you know that my parents haven't been drinking as long if not longer than you?

Mental disease known as alcoholism? IT'S NOT A MENTAL DISEASE. Uncontrollable binge drinking happens because people don't have the will power to STOP. If at ANY point in time, they know that it's bad and that it's wrong, it's not a disease. The physical action of drinking alcohol to stop any mental anguish is done out of their OWN volition. A disease is forced, and uncontrollable.

Frankie wrote:
Take a look at wiki to prove alcoholism is a disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

Because the word THEORY means that it's proven and is the idea to follow. It's a THEORY. It's not proven. But since you want to use this as the main basis of your proof:

Wiki wrote:

[...] the disease is characterized by symptoms including an impaired control over alcohol, compulsive thoughts about alcohol, and distorted thinking. [...]

...By an impaired control over alcohol. Let me start by saying: the person who wrote this article COMPLETELY contradicts itself with this sentence, because they note the fact that they have "compulsive thoughts about alcohol". Basically, they are saying that the subjects of the said problem are AWARE of the fact that they are problem drinking. In other words, it's an ADDICTION (or, in lamer terms - problem drinking). The distorted thinking comes from other outlying problems in their lives - may it be family, jobs, depression, whatever.

Wiki wrote:

[...] 7. the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption) [...]

Definition of addiction:
Quote :
baddiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

That article stabs itself in the foot MULTIPLE times and completely disproves the fact that it's a disease.

Quote :
Another:

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/about/f/faq2.htm

Cool, let's use a place that has no sources on it directly. However, after clicking the 'Alcoholic Alert No. 30' link listed on that page:
Quote :
(Cool. They considered essential elements of dependence to be a narrowing of the drinking repertoire, drink-seeking behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, drinking to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms, subjective awareness of the compulsion to drink, and a return to drinking after a period of abstinence (Cool

Oh look, more times to prove that the user was completely aware of the fact that they were indeed, picking up a drink because of withdrawal. If we can call this a disease, then smoking cigarettes, pot, or using any other sort of anti-depressant would be considered a 'disease', because you are willingly taking whatever it is to relieve your problem.

Quote :

Another:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcoholism/DS00340

Can I please have an article that actually attempts to use sources/studies to prove the theory?

Quote :
Another/with quote:

http://www.about-alcoholism-facts.com/Is_Alcoholism_A_Disease.html

And I'll just say what I did earlier, the fact that the person let themselves get far enough into the state where they are able to break the bonds of alcohol means that there was no attempt to quit. If we're considering the uncontrollable urge to consume something, then we're going to need a whole new repertoire of names to come with for all of the drugs used in things most adults use on a regular basis.

There is nothing in alcohol that FORCES you to keep drinking other than the own problems a person has in their life. If a person is dealing with stress, they'll turn to relief.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:45 pm

Fact is its an addiction not a disease, but neither are going to be right basically so stop trying to defend the fact that it is a disease just so you can be right.......
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:52 pm

Plan_B wrote:
Fact is its an addiction not a disease, but neither are going to be right basically so stop trying to defend the fact that it is a disease just so you can be right.......

It's an addiction, and it can be proven. There's nothing physically in the alcohol that triggers the brain to keep drinking. Beers are derived from starches, and those starches are derived from cereal grains (wheat, barley, corn, rice, etc.). Then you have the hops, which flavor the beer - NONE of which have any additives in the brain which trigger a reaction to continue. What most people seek, is the EFFECT of the pure alcohol - which is the toxin that you willingly put in your body, to impair you.

Hard liquor:
Main articles: Distillation, Distilled beverage, Ethanol, and Liqueur.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:55 pm

Oh I know its an addiction, it common sense, but I dont want to be sucked into this BS fighting because two little pricks want to be right and defend something that obviously isnt true.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:57 pm

Frankie wrote:
Listen, honestly, i don't understand why it's so hard to see it as a disease. Really i don't. I can go to the websites, as you said, and blah blah and you can sit there and tell me your side without websites, i personally don't care. TO ME, it is a disease. If you drink alcohol in excess of what you should be, if at all, it's a disease. A disease of the mind that is called Alcoholism. It is my opinion, and until doctors and scientists tell me it's not? Then I'm not convinced it's not. Just like Mikey said but reversed.

If the NIoH and others can say it is, I'm convinced it IS a disease. i don't care who is typing that. I'll call them up, the NIoH and ask them personally if you would so desire. If they say it is, case closed in my book.

yes there is constant theories about it, yes it is speculation, but no matter what, everyone has their own opinions. I'm not running from it I don't have the disease. I don't drink really at all. SO if I'm not trying to run from something why would I call it a Disease? That is direct towards AJ.

Also, as sara said, not everyone is going to get a disease that their mother or father had. My mothers mother had diabetes, my mother did not. My fathers mother had glaucoma(?) my father does not. Not every disease is GOING to be DEFINITE in someone's life by their parents.

Bottom line, is yes it is opinionated. End of story.

No, it's not. It's seriously not opinionated. And if you're going to sit here and defend something completely based off of how "YOU" feel. Calling up an associating that advocates the theory of alcoholism does nothing because it is a theory at best. I believe in alcohol abuse entirely, but alcohol abuse, is entirely an addiction.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Alcoholism a disease?   August 27th 2010, 3:59 pm

I added a poll to the op all arguments have pretty well been presented so lets just have a vote on it and see who is swayed which way.

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